Let me also add that "Patterson" has recently used this article in private letters to individuals that challenge the chronology. Their argument being that this is an old issue they have seen before -- of course that argument does not address the challenge and problems with the 607 date. However, when they quote from this article, they do not provide the full reference, only a couple sentences that seem to bolster their current claim.
Ultimate Reality
JoinedPosts by Ultimate Reality
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Spiritual Food from Christ since October 1874 proves Russell's Chronology!
by Ultimate Reality inin the october 1, 1904 watchtower, page 298, the 587 bce chronology issue is raised by a reader.
below are the final comments of a lengthy defense.
i thought it worth sharing.... .
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Spiritual Food from Christ since October 1874 proves Russell's Chronology!
by Ultimate Reality inin the october 1, 1904 watchtower, page 298, the 587 bce chronology issue is raised by a reader.
below are the final comments of a lengthy defense.
i thought it worth sharing.... .
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Ultimate Reality
Old Hippie: The quote above is part of the reply to a question addressed to the author of Millennial Dawn and the Watch Tower. I do not say that Russell actually penned the words above. Nevertheless, that would seem to be a distinction without a difference since it is defending Russell's chronology and was written in the Watch Tower.
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Spiritual Food from Christ since October 1874 proves Russell's Chronology!
by Ultimate Reality inin the october 1, 1904 watchtower, page 298, the 587 bce chronology issue is raised by a reader.
below are the final comments of a lengthy defense.
i thought it worth sharing.... .
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Ultimate Reality
In the October 1, 1904 Watchtower, page 298, the 587 BCE chronology issue is raised by a reader. Below are the final comments of a lengthy defense. I thought it worth sharing...
"A move of nineteen years, as the brother suggests above -- or for that matter a change of even one year -- would affect all the time prophecies of Vol. III. of the DAWN. The 1260 days, the 1290 days, the 1335 days, the 2300 days of Daniel, would all be thrown out of gear, out of the beautiful relationship shown in the Parallel Dispensations.
We all remember how we were thrilled when first studying we found that the parallels of dispensation showed that our Lord was due to be present in October, 1874, as the exact parallel of the beginning of his ministry and the “harvest” of the Jewish age; and how this thrill was intensified when we found the same date exactly marked by the Jubilee type; and how we almost shouted for joy when we found that Daniel’s “1335 days” ended at precisely the same date; and, finally, how we repeated over and over the Prophet's words, “Oh, the blessedness of him that waiteth and cometh unto the 1335 days.”
What a blessedness indeed ! As the Apostle intimated it would be, so we have found it, “Times of refreshing!” Take away these parallels, disjoint this testimony by changing any part of the chronology, and you have a still mightier work before you; -- the work of accounting for the rich spiritual food the Lord has been supplying to us since October, 1874 -- since the time of his presence, and in full accord with his promise that he would gird himself and become the servant of his true ones at his second presence and serve them “meat in due season,” sending it at the hands of his faithful servants. We have dealt with this subject at greater length than it may seem to deserve, believing that it may stimulate some to follow the Apostle's exhortation, "Let us give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest we let them slip."-Heb. 2: 1."
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Calling Young Brothers to Bethel while Kicking Out the Loyal Ones
by Ultimate Reality inthis week marks the news of two "young" brothers i know being accepted to brooklyn bethel.. this pattern continues to demonstrate the current "human resources" policy of the current gb.
while telling those that have spent the best years of their life, "we need you in the field", they continue to bring in the healthy, unsuspecting young brothers so they can be used up with nothing to show for it late in life.. at last year's d.c. there was an interview with a brother that had been "sent back to the field" some 4 months prior to the convention.
what was so sad, is that the brother was clearly alone, and perhaps scared, in his new assignment in a remote rural area with a congregation of 40. he had been accepted to bethel after high school, never pioneered, and had been at bethel for 30 years!
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Ultimate Reality
This week marks the news of two "young" brothers I know being accepted to Brooklyn Bethel.
This pattern continues to demonstrate the current "human resources" policy of the current GB. While telling those that have spent the best years of their life, "we need you in the field", they continue to bring in the healthy, unsuspecting young brothers so they can be used up with nothing to show for it late in life.
At last year's D.C. there was an interview with a brother that had been "sent back to the field" some 4 months prior to the convention. What was so sad, is that the brother was clearly alone, and perhaps scared, in his new assignment in a remote rural area with a congregation of 40. He had been accepted to bethel after high school, never pioneered, and had been at bethel for 30 years! Now, nearly 50 years of age, he was in a strange place, with no family, trying to "work the field". When asked the classic question "How has JEHOVAH BLESSED you?!", he started to trip on his words, saying that "it was too early in the assignment to really say, things had been challenging..." But then he pulled it together. With how tightly controlled the interviews are, he must have been off script. It was a rare moment of honesty.
As I listened to this man, I truly felt sorry for him. Here he had sacrificed his life for the organization. Now, he was all alone.
And yet, the GB is still calling the young brothers "from the field" to Brooklyn. Woe to the hypocrites.
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Watchtower negotiates with Town of Ramapo over taxes
by lrkr inhttp://www.lohud.com/article/20090615/news03/906150341/1019.
enjoy guys!
front page, above the fold this morning..
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Ultimate Reality
Perhaps it will be a compound for the GB and the Legal Department; this way the GB can further isolate themselves.
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Very confused-help please
by hatchetsup injust found this board late last night and can't stop reading, it's fascinating.. let me give you a quick background of myself.
i was born a jw, never baptized, was labeled bad association when i was 12 due to having all worldy friends and smoking, lol.
i was very confused how being that young i could be labelled as that but i was.
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Ultimate Reality
Another very good and comprehensive source is jwfacts.com. As one who was born-in, baptized, and served in various capacities, I have found it both accurate and beneficial.
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Scan/Image Request - 2520 years / 1914 / 607 BCE / 70 years
by Ultimate Reality indoes anyone have a scan (or publication suggestion) for an illustrated chart in any of the wt publications that lays out the "appointed times of the nations"?
preferably one that highlights all the significant points, especially the 70 years and 1914, or even better, 1919.. thank you in advance..
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Ultimate Reality
Does anyone have a scan (or publication suggestion) for an illustrated chart in any of the WT publications that lays out the "Appointed Times of the Nations"? Preferably one that highlights all the significant points, especially the 70 years and 1914, or even better, 1919.
Thank you in advance.
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Long Time Reader
by wantarevolution inwhere do i start?
i suppose with "me".
i am mid 20's, born in and live abroad with my wife, "serving" in a foreign language congregation.
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Ultimate Reality
Welcome. I am 3rd generation and my wife is 4th. We're still in but making our move out. It has taken time and a full range of emotions. You are not alone, you will find both support and information here. Take your time and investigate the scriptures for yourself. For me, it was a 2 year process of investigation, both of the bible and what the Society really is. Now, I am at peace. As for me personally, I still believe in God but not religious institutions.
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70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
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Ultimate Reality
The JW Scholar is guilty of scholastic dishonesty, or is just parroting the Society's dishonesty in the Appendix of the Let Your Kingdom Come book.
I think my previous post on Jeremiah and the Society's own statement stands on it's own. However, it really grinds me when people say that Josephus advocated 70 years of desolation.
The Society uses this quote from Josephus:
“Furthermore, Josephus elsewhere describes the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians and then says that "all Judea and Jerusalem, and the temple, continued to be a desert for seventy years." (Antiquities of the Jews X, ix, 7) Hepointedly states that ‘our city was desolate during the interval of seventy years, until the days of Cyrus.’” (Against Apion I, 19) – Let Your Kingdom Come, 1981, italics the Society’s
Reading this paragraph seems to prove the 70 years of desolation. However, the Society italicized the word “desolate”. This distracts from the word “during” used by Cyrus. This is critical because the statement of Josephus does not directly prove that the city and temple were destroyed 70 years before the Jews release by Cyrus. It merely says these things happened during a 70 year period.
Just semantics?
Conspicuously absent from the Society’s examination is the following; in the same writing of Josephus, a few paragraphs later, he specifically addresses the temple in Jerusalem:
“These accounts agree with the true history in our books [the Hebrew Scriptures]; for in them it is written that Nebuchadnezzar, in the nineteenth year of his reign, laid our temple desolate, and so it lay in that state for fifty years ; but that in the second year of the reign of Cyrus, its foundations were laid and it was finished again in the second year of Darius.” - Against Apion I, 21
So, 70 - 50 = 20. There's your 20 year discrepancy. Josephus, the Bible, and secular chronology are all in agreement.
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1925 - What the Society was really teaching.
by Ultimate Reality inhaving trouble w/ images.
please delete & i'll repost.. .
2009 - "since 1925, jehovah's witnesses have recognized that world war i and the events that followed amount to sure evidence that christ's presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914" (w.09, 3/15, p.16).
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Ultimate Reality
Ok. I have the images worked out. What the Society's angle is on bringing up 1925 I do not know. But here are the relevant scans from the "famous" Birth of the Nation article.
